Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Who Sent Eko's Dream?

So what/who used the "not good" Ana Lucia to speak to the unrepentant Eko to ensure that the button in the Swan was still pushed? Is it Mrs. Hawking style course correction until Desmond returns? In fact is there a two-pronged attack by the course correcting forces to stop Locke from pushing the button, but keeping it pushed until Desmond can turn the key? Or could there be two competing forces on the Island itself, one who wanted the button pushed and the other who wanted the key turned?


capcom said...

You know, I have wondered about this since his dream (and Walt's "appearances"), with the whole "who wants who to push or not push the button." But adding Mrs. Hawking into the mix, which we must do now that she's shown up, makes it even more perplexing to me!

I like your idea of the competing forces, wouldn't that be great if that's the case?! Like a metaphysical war between Jacob and Mrs.Hawking and Co.! Good point!

capcom said...

P.S. And that begs another question, which side of the metaphysical war are the whispering people on?! :o)

andrew. said...

i like the competing forces angle as well. I think it would be really difficult to explain those 2 sides to the audience, short of having Locke sit down with a big wipeboard but it seems like the only way to explain a lot of the contradictory actions of the characters.

Looking back at season 2, it's where a lot of my favorite LOST mythology came up, but it's also a real mess. I hate to doubt my favorite show, but i have a feeling that our beloved writers imploded the Swan Station to get themselves out of a lot of self-dug holes.

Aside from time travelling Desmond, Season 3 seems a lot more straightforward.

memphish said...

I'm with you Andrew. I'm interested to see how this jumble of mythology plays out especially in light of Eko leaving the show earlier than the creators had hoped he would and Michael Emerson turning out to be such a fantastic actor. I think a lot of the "inconsistencies" might link back to these two actor related matters.

As for the diagramming, maybe a new Radzinsky will emerge and he could draw it out. Maybe the next Hatch will have a telestrator. Or perhaps the guy with the long hair on the UPS ads is available.

Jay said...

This question has actually been answered - it was the monster. There's a long thread on this in Lost Forum. Here's the gist:

In the post-finale Podcast, Damon read a question that asked why the writers threw the monster on the back burner (besides Eko's eye-to-eye) during season 2.

Damon very carefully and hesitantly replied by saying: "you guys saw the monster this year, but just didn't realize you were looking at the monster.

A further follow-up on the Fuselage gave the added bit of info that the appearance was after "The 23rd Psalm."

Speculation immediately flew around every Season 2 hallucination/vision. Here's what I wrote:

Very, very interesting. If this is true, I'm thinking that it's actually Yemi, and not Dave. Why?

Well, originally when I heard the podcast, I immediately thought it was the horse or some other hallucination (not Walt, who I think was really astral projecting). But since he said specifically it was after the 23rd Psalm, that suggests something happened in that episode that would make the monster appear (but not be seen) again later.

Eko certainly seemed to have impressed or, at very least, forged some sort of bond with the monster when it read his mind. And we know that Locke also has likely seen the monster, possibly having had the same sort of experience with it. Therefore, it seems to me, that the monster knew what was going through Locke's mind, knew what would happen when the button wasn't pushed, and tried to stop it using his good old friend Eko to help his original old friend John find his way by appearing as Yemi (and Ana) in both their dreams.

Very exciting. It certainly raises the possibility that the monster is a self-aware being, capable of self-preservation.

The monster can mind-read, so it probably appeared as both Ana and Yemi in the dream. And we now know the monster can certainly appear as Yemi in waking life too. R.I.P. Eko. :(

memphish said...

Wow Jay! I remember Darlton talking about the Monster, but most people I knew were busy looking for literal smoke on the finale. I think though that Cost of Living confirms your thoughts. So why hasn't Locke had Smokey induced Island visions? Or is that what Cooper was?

Jay said...

I think Locke has had visions. First off, remember he also dreamed of Yemi in "?" along with Eko. He also had the vision of the Beechcraft crashing and I believe Walt appearing at the edge of the grave in the Season 3 finale was the monster as well. I think Cooper was real.

The monster seems to communicate on a telepathic level - it can read minds and appear to other people as some of the acquaintances it sees. As far as I can remember, no one has ever touched one of these manifestations in the real world, so they may or may not be substantial... i.e. the question is is the monster actually assuming the shape or just making the subject think they they're seeing the shape? Couple other things to note here:

1) I would think the appearance of Ben's Mom would also be the Monster , but the question there is how did it get inside the security fence to appear at his window? Possible answer - the monster is not assuming the shape and can project these images over long distances.

2) Richard thought it was VERY significant that Ben saw his Mom. So who's the only other person on the island to see a vision of a parental figure? Jack. Wonder what Richard would think of Jack if he knew he chased Christian around the island, eh?

3) Dave was likely not the monster, instead being an actual hallucination by Hurley. Shannon's vision of Walt was likely Walt himself, astral projecting. Kate's horse was obviously real, but we know the Others have horses on the island so it could have just been a coincidence.

It's nice to be talking some Lost again. :)

memphish said...

Jay how would Smokey know to show Walt to Locke? Smokey met Locke on day 4.

Paula Abdul Alhazred said...

You know, I started imagining my response to this post, when I got a creepy sense of deja vu about this whole conversation. I then realized that all of us had said almost these exact same things before, both in a post about the Monster in my blog, and then in an earlier post here about the Swan. I don't know about a time loop on LOST, but I think this proves that all of us are certainly stuck in one! :)

Seriously though, the question of who exactly is sending those dreams probably strikes at the very heart of the show. Is it psychological? Sci-fi? Spiritual? Supernatural? All have their pros and cons. In previous discussions on this topic, I basically said everything that Jay said in his response here (and Jay said it back then, too, haha), and I continue to agree with that assessment. I think the Monster sent those dreams to Eko to make sure that the button was pushed. It chose Eko to replace Locke when Locke began questioning his faith. Before this, it had been communicating to Locke with dreams and visions.

I don't believe the Monster physically takes the shape of anything . . . I think it communicates through hallucinations that seem so real, a person may believe they are actually interacting with something. And they are, just psychically. For instance, other people would've seen Christian Shephard standing in the water if he were physically there. But they didn't. Jack's dad, Eko's brother, Ben's mom and (this is where I disagree with Jay) Dave were all manifestations of the Monster, or of whoever is controlling the Monster (which I suspect is Jacob). I figure that Dave is the Monster because it seemed to test him in a way that many of our characters have been tested. I think Walt's appearances are the result of Walt's ability to do the same thing that Jacob does, just on a smaller level. (In fact, if people with certain abilities are able to manifest thought in this way on the island, that would even open the possibility that Hurley made Dave manifest). Things such as Sawyer's boar or Kate's horse are physically there, but perhaps manipulated by the Monster/Jacob in the same way that Walt can seemingly manipulate animals.

As for Ms. Hawking, I strongly suspect she represents a force opposed to Jacob and the Others, and that would be the freighter people. Her people needed the failsafe key turned so they could relocate the island, and do whatever it is they are planning to do. This is why I think Jacob wanted the button pushed. DHARMA screwed things up, and after that, pushing the button was the only way to keep the island hidden. Turning that key meant setting a disastrous chain of events in motion.

Lastly, I think the whispers are a kind of psychic crossfire echoing inside whatever the Monster is. I don't believe they are the voices of beings that are actually present, just sort of a Greek chorus of copied memories.

Whew, okay. That's it for now!

memphish said...

Hehehe, PAA. I knew when I posted this it was repetitive and that you'd done a great job with Eko analysis on your blog, but I decided to run with it anyway since it was the motivating force in the episode ?

memphish said...

So do you think Locke has a deeper connection or just a more gullible moron given that the Island can communicate to him with visions of people not from his past like Yemi in the dream at the ? and end of S3 Walt?

Paula Abdul Alhazred said...


I happen to be one of the most repetitive people in the world, so I have to confess I often jump at the chance to have the same conversation over and over. (Which sometimes drives people around me crazy). Anyway, I'm glad that we can all continue to talk about these things, and that we still get excited by it.

As for Locke, your question is one I always wrestle with. Has he really been chosen, or is he just easily manipulated? I'm thinking that, when all is said and done, it's likely to be a mix of both. Because really, that gets at the bigger issue of fate vs. free will, which is a question I don't think LOST can completely answer.