Thursday, October 18, 2007

Coincidence or Fate?

Locke's going on about the odds two plane crash survivors
would find two parts of a film that had been seperated
and would bring them back together. And Mr. Eko replies:

Don't mistake coincidence for fate.

So Eko thinks this is fate, right? Not mere
coincidence. Strange for the man of fate, John Locke, to
be the mere man of coincidence in this instance. Eko is
so friggin' enigmatic I have a hard time understanding him.

And here's another question about this new piece of film.
In the excised portion of film our man who's both a doctor
and plays one on film, if not TV, says:

The isolation that attends the duties associated with
Station 3 may tempt you to try and utilize the computer
for communication with the outside world. This is strictly
forbidden. Attempting to use the computer in this manner
will compromise the integrity of the project and worse,
could lead to another incident.

So did contacting the outside world lead to the first incident?
Is Jack's contact with the outside world going to lead to
a new incident? Or like the quarantine warning is this just
Dharma smoke?

One final question for you IT types. Would it really be
possible for the Others in one of the other stations to
unlock the Swan computer's keyboard allowing Michael to
have his little chat?


Paula Abdul Alhazred said...


I think it's the other way around: Locke thinks this is fate, Eko thinks it's coincidence. Eko is warning Locke not to read too much into everything. The tables will turn later in the season. Unless I'm getting my language mixed up, of course.

In regards to Candle's comments about the outisde world, I always thought he was mostly talking about the other stations. He's saying the Swan needs to remain isolated from the rest of the island, as the Others pose a significant threat and could compromise the project if they commandeer the station. But since we've now seen the outside world, you raise a good point.

I don't think the Others unlocked Michael's keyboard, I think Michael himself did it when he was fiddling with all those cables.

memphish said...

See PAA, that's why I asked the question. This scene has always confused me. I go back and forth on who is coincidence and who fate. But arguments for Eko saying its fate are first and foremost, most men of God don't believe in coincidence or luck, but in sovereignty. Now Eko hasn't been to seminary that we know of, but still, it's out of character for a real priest to call something mere conincidence which definitionally is an accident. Secondly, Locke's use of the phrase "what are the odds" make me think he's relying more on luck than fate at this point. So that's how I read it.

As for old MC, his use of the phrase "outside world" stuck out to me during this rewatching. Now it makes me wonder if the Swan team even knew or were supposed to know that there were other people on the Island. Obviously Kelvin and Radzinsky knew, but I wonder if the first crew that watched the film did. I'd guess with that 540 day stint in the Swan vs. the 3 weeks in the Pearl that the Swan people may not have known there were other friendlies much less hostiles on the Island.

Boy this just gets the mind racing. Why didn't the film ever say you shouldn't leave the Hatch or that you should only leave the Hatch after the lockdown procedure to retrieve food? Why isn't their a food drop manual in the Swan like there was at the Flame? Did Mikhail/Radzinsky/Kelvin/someone move that manual from the Swan to the Flame?

The good news is none of these questions is truly vital, but still it's things I'd like to know. I can see this leading me down the path to needing that new LOST video game. Good thing Xmas is coming up soon.

Paula Abdul Alhazred said...

I see what you're saying, Memphish. I'm just gravitating more towards the opposite, where Locke is implying fate by saying "what are the odds?" After all, Locke went on and on and on about destiny to Jack in the first season finale. At this point in the series, I think Locke is reading fate into everything. Eko, on the other hand, isn't quite on that page yet. He doesn't even fully accept his role as priest until "The 23rd Psalm," so I think his statement in "What Kate Did" is implying that he's not necessarily reading a deeper meaning into what's happening. That will change later in the season, of course, when the island begins to directly influence Eko. Before that point, Eko may have faith in God but that doesn't mean he has unquestioning faith in everything that happens around him, whereas, at this point, Locke does.

memphish said...

I can buy that PAA.

This theme does come back up in the next episode 23rd Psalm. And I agree I think that Eko is at this point questioning the notion of fate. In his FBs he's called a "born killer," a man with "no soul," a man without a "penitent heart," a man whose sins cannot be forgiven (unlike Yemi's). The issue of whose fault it is that Eko (and Charlie) ended up with their problems (killng and heroin) also comes up. Is it their own fault or choice or their brothers' fault?

I know you and I have gone back and forth on Eko a lot this hiatus. I'm glad I've got you as a resource in this area. Eko is often a big enigma to me. Rewatching these episodes really makes me miss him too. He truly added value to the show.

capcom said...

Interesting. I always took it that Locke was beginning to trivialize what was happening, and that Eko was taking on the more esoteric viewpoint.

I gathered that Eko's heart and soul began to turn around after he killed those Others in self defense onthe beach, and then for the first time felt remorse about his previous killing and those as well. Then his entire way of looking at life became spiritual, etc.