Tuesday, August 14, 2007

In Hindsight, I Should Have
Figured Out Here That Sun
Could Not Be Trusted

Jin learns that Sun can speak English and so decides to
give her the silent treatment. Sun's response: Some weak
pleading in Korean, then a full confession of her desire to
leave Jin delivered in English. To Jin it must have sounded
like Charlie Brown's teacher. Not much of a confession, eh?

There's not really a question associated with this, but it is
interesting to rewatch the old Sun and Jin episodes given
the Season 3 flashbacks. And of course, there's also the
huge irony that but for Jin and his fishing skills which he
was ashamed of in Korea, these people would have
starved way before the Others got involved.

The timing in Sun and Jin's flashbacks comes into focus
in Season 3. We learn that Jin becomes a "message
deliverer" for Mr. Paik shortly after their wedding, and
he comes home with blood on his hands shortly after that.
Sun says in The Hunting Party that they've been married
4 years. That means the two of them were cold and distant
for most of those four years.

I'm surprised it took Sun that long to devise her escape
plan. I guess Jae's death was the final straw that sent her
looking for a new life. All in all a very sad marriage especially
given that unless Sun is one of the people who gets off the
Island, she's going to die in about a month.


Jay said...

Well, I imagine it was pretty difficult for her to figure out a way to escape for not only Jin, but her bad daddy as well (we know he was watching both of them thanks to Hawaiian Shirt Guy in the airport).

Then there's the whole learning another language thing and waiting for the right moment, i.e. Jin's trip to L.A.

It doesn't surprise me at all it took that long - it does surprise me a bit she backed out after getting along as far as she did.

Lisa said...

this is a "chicken or the egg" scenario for me... yes, Sun needed to escape... but the circumstances of the estrangement go back to decisions she made early in the marriage... granted, they were not easy decisions but to protect Jin's honor by hiding his birthmother's identify, downward goes the slide... Jin is just as much a victim as Sun. Can she be trusted?

Off island, I think we knew as early as the glass ballerina, she could not be (was it fear? selfishness? pride? that motivated the lie about the maid? or is she not too far from her father)

On island... I don't know.... add to your example that she doesn't tell Jin about Charlie and Sawyer. Again, potentially honorable motives to protect them... but we could see this one backfire pretty badly in the future.... great question as usual!

capcom said...

Good points friends.

Except for the cheating on her husband part, I don't see Sun's behavior as any worse than what millions of mixed up people in the world do. Especially those who live in any society where saving face and making sure things look proper on the outside are most important. I don't condone her behavior at all, don't get me wrong. But compared to other Losties who willfully killed people, Kate and Sawyer for example, she's not so bad.

The marriage certainly started off on a very unfortunate foundation, but the crash and putting things in their proper perspective, seems to have set their hearts and minds back onto a better path to making their union work out right. Especially with the baby and all. The Sun and Jin tale make for such a great story in the whole bag of stories in the show.

Lisa said...

I love character bio conversations! ;-)

Agreed, I don't think Sun is public enemy #1. I think her motivations and her actions are a product of pride, fear, love .... Jin's actions and motivations are no more or less "human"- ambition, shame, etc. All real factors in real lives (complicated of course in this case by a mafia type paternal empire, hey, it's TV!)

I believe that Sun would have left everything behind for Jin and been a fisherman's wife. Jin wouldn't let her (and I think she knew her father ultimately wouldn't not allow this either). They started out honorably- working their way up from the bottom of the legitimate part of the Paik business. Then we see blackmail, misunderstandings about what the money was for, and marital decline ensues- and then CRASH- back to basics on the island where Jin's "shameful" occupation saves the losties (excellent point!),

But as far as Island Sun, with the current exception of keeping Charlie and Sawyer's attack a secret- I think she's on the straight and narrow. I also think that we see her "untruths" possibly being a product of surviving her environment (ex. the glass ballerina and her father's anger) Of course, that could change with one stroke of a writers pen! (Sun could black mail them, Jin could find out her secret...and so on and so on!) And, as Memphish points out... on Island Sun doesn't have much time left....

Forgive the sidebar- I want to go back a few Memphish posts... Memphish asked if it mattered who she was married to- the question really got me thinking....

I'm postulating that Shannon was married to Peter Talbot. Two possible scenarios that I could think of-

(1) Talbot was the love of Shannon's life and was murdered by Cooper. A distraught Shannon was blackmailed or otherwise approached by Cooper later concerning the life insurance payouts or other assets (or a longer con on the mother, because, remember Cooper had to flee after pushing Locke out the window). She went through with whatever con he presented. Afterwards, she started her "cons" on Boone after finding the con-artist lifestyle lucrative.

(2) Shannon was Cooper's partner already (we know she was cut off from her father's fortune). She targeted the son, he targeted the mother- there'd be money either way. She tipped Talbot off to Cooper because she either wanted the whole windfall for herself, or she legitimately fell for Talbot and wanted to save him and his mother. After Talbot was killed, she was left with nothing and resorted to conning Boone.

In the either case...although its far fetched, it could be Shannon (as well as Cooper) who murdered Talbot.

Anyway, just wanted to put that out there somewhere- even if I'm proven to be a complete fool later!.... now, back to Sun!

pgtbeauregard said...

Good comments about Sun. She has seemed to be honest post crash (with the exception of being able to speak English).


love love love the idea about Shannon and Peter Talbot. Never even entered my mind until you thought it up.

capcom said...

Great points about Sun and also the idea on Shannon! Would not be surprised if Cooper was connected to almost all the Losties in various ways.

I think that Sun keeping the secret about Charlie and Sawyer might fall under a forgiveness clause. That is, if Sun has forgiven them, which TPTB implied that she did in the ep when talking to Charlie about it, then there is no need to tell Jin about it unless forced by some other issue at stake. What that issue or circumstance might be I don't know, but just saying. I think that it's OK to not tell Jin for the sake of keeping peace and not getting him upset at Sawyer.

memphish said...

I was going to suggest it might be worth telling Jin that it wasn't the Others behind her kidnapping in case they need to trust the Others to help with the pregnancy only to remember that the Others while not trying to kidnap Sun the first time were going to kidnap her this time, so never mind.

I do think it's good that Jin doesn't hate Sawyer right now, because I'm pretty sure they need to work together moving forward.

I'm interested to see if Sawyer finds a reason for living moving forward now that the real Sawyer is dead, Kate is a doofus for rejecting a guy who actually loves her to chase another who says he does too but doesn't know how to act like he does, and with our LOSTies apparently in control of their own destiny vis a vis the Island and remaining on it.

capcom said...

Right Memphish, I'm not into the whole relationship thing, but I wish that Kate would go with Sawyer, since she's been repeatedly making all the physical "investments" with him since their first bear cage encounter. And because, like you said, Jack doesn't really know what he wants, poor kid.

Lisa said...

"Kate is a doofus"- funny. But I do think that Sawyer, who in my opinion, WILL find reason to live and significantly reform post-Cooper. I think he'll have a long road of overcoming guilt if, in fact the Island and his killing of Cooper was truly real (I'm still not sold on that), but I think he'll be the Sawyer of all his wonderful potential post island. But ok, I can also admit that is the romantic in me talking!

I'm the reverse of capcom- I love the relationship aspects of this show as it adds so much to the drama and character development (sumpin for everyone on this series!)! Makes for good convo!

Thanks for the props on the Shannon theory- I wouldn't place any bets on my rantiings, but this one really got me thinking (thanks for the original question memphish!)

capcom said...

I just meant that I'm not into the "shipper" sides that some people seem to get into and riled up about. But I'm fascinated by the way that TPTB have intertwined the indiviuals and personalities of the characters into their compromises and conflicts. I do like the drama of the human interactions on the show, I agree, it adds dimension and often defines the atmosphere of the events on the island as they unfold. It's great psychological fiction.

Lisa said...

Oh, gotcha Camcom! Wasn't sure what you meant- and i didn't mean to imply anything negative- so many people are into the science/sci-fi parts- the characters come second for those. Valid way to watch the show for sure. Wasn't sure where you fell! I guess I have to admit I'm a 'shipper who likes the science on the side!!

Lisa said...

supposed to read capcom...sorry!

capcom said...

Yes, my interests fall into the category of Scifi with lots of psychological drama! Gene Roddenberry and Rod Serling opened a whole new field of Scifi stories for TV with the original Star Trek series and The Twilight Zone. I love that juxtapostioning of science, fantasy, conflict, and the human condition! And LOST is following the tradition very well. :-)